tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3083855923964640893.post1148100321832802945..comments2023-11-05T10:53:07.638+00:00Comments on Patently Rubbish: Wordsmithing Shoesmithpatentlyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00602962323262055007noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3083855923964640893.post-35242645940034164712011-06-02T23:36:33.398+01:002011-06-02T23:36:33.398+01:00We need a new court of Equity!We need a new court of Equity!Old BEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06974090439936326476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3083855923964640893.post-78843924164046551012011-06-02T19:29:53.540+01:002011-06-02T19:29:53.540+01:00Yes, my argument is that the law is far from ideal...Yes, my argument is that the law is far from ideal, but that it is still the law nevertheless, and should be followed - <em>especially by those from the party responsible for bringing much of them into force</em>.<br /><br />M - I am not in the least surprised - not a shred. <br /><br />BQ, that case is awful but sadly typical. The consistent advice which I have been given as an employer is that I can do whatever I wish, so long as I follow the right procedure absolutely to the letter, and am prepared to wait while the procedure works through. This is insane. It helps neither the employee nor the employer. <br /><br />It is the rule of lawyers, not the rule of justice.patentlyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00602962323262055007noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3083855923964640893.post-38768946200887131962011-06-02T18:21:37.460+01:002011-06-02T18:21:37.460+01:00Measured:
I can give you any number of those stori...Measured:<br />I can give you any number of those stories that I have been involved in.<br />Been caught out too. <br /><br />Just remembered a non related one.<br />Once had a long term sickie on the books for 5 years because HR were too scared to bring action, even though they had proof that this 'too sick too perform any work' individual was on skiing holiday with other members of the same firm.<br /><br />Sure Mr P has his share of stories too?Bill Quango MPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14861116614665461655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3083855923964640893.post-60423944475604678282011-06-02T18:17:57.055+01:002011-06-02T18:17:57.055+01:00BE. I fully agree with Patently.The law is complic...BE. I fully agree with Patently.The law is complicated, but clear. <br /><br />I was only pointing out how expensive these stupid tribunals are. In that case, which is almost open and shut, the firm 'won' but still had to payout nearly £20k. {firm since gone into administration. Out of despair more than anything I shouldn't wonder. This was their second case in a short space of time. Pyrrhic victory both times.} <br /><br />Originally tribunals were away from 'legalese.' They weren't that different from judge Judy. If employer behaved badly, withheld pay, no reasons for dismissal etc, they'd lose.<br /><br />But now they are very legal. If the employer does not have legal representation they will probably lose. Lose for not enacting 'procedures' properly, rather than not having any grounds for doing whatever it has done.Bill Quango MPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14861116614665461655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3083855923964640893.post-22371735086922181962011-06-02T17:48:57.647+01:002011-06-02T17:48:57.647+01:00When I was volunteering at the RCJ Advice Bureau, ...When I was volunteering at the RCJ Advice Bureau, a retired gentleman came in. He had an employment claim. His difficulty was that he was very upset because he had applied for this job and not been selected for interview for a job as a chemical engineer. He had filed a claim against the UK subsidiary alleging age discrimination and received a snooty letter back from them. Could I help him? <br /><br />As we talked, he stopped pretending to be upset and started to talk. He devoted two days a week to 'this hobby'. He always chose to apply for specialist scientific positions, advertised in trade magazines, where the parent company was foreign and he made sure he was overqualified for the role. <br /><br />He had about four applications on the go at that time and had only been doing it for six months to supplement his pension. He had already made some £5,000 in early settlements. I wonder where he is now? Probably on a beach in Majorca.<br /><br />(My apologies if I have told you this before.)measuredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11281134269555074558noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3083855923964640893.post-89544043213660521572011-06-02T09:23:27.318+01:002011-06-02T09:23:27.318+01:00BQ, I am not sure Mr Patently is arguing that the ...BQ, I am not sure Mr Patently is arguing that the law is good, but it is still the law and it should be followed.Old BEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06974090439936326476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3083855923964640893.post-18971734980711474222011-06-01T11:18:38.154+01:002011-06-01T11:18:38.154+01:00Just finished a tribunal.Senior executive been sac...Just finished a tribunal.Senior executive been sacked claiming unfair dismissal.<br /><br />The defending party was dismissed for gross misconduct. <br />1. purchasing on contract fleet vehicles totaling £80,000 without approval.{ this normally indicates a kickback somewhere. Hard to prove so exceeding authority is used to justify dismissal, which is also hard to win at a tribunal.<br /><br />2. Using company credit card for private use.Hotels, girlfriends travel, unauthorised items etc. Easy to prove. Can be difficult to justify dismissal depending on the tribunal.<br /><br />3. Using company data to secure the defendant a post at a rival company.<br /><br />4. Various non-compliance issues.<br /><br />Unfairley dismissed was claimeing £50,000 compensation + costs + anything else could think of.Car-Laptop-phone-holiday pay etc<br /><br />Claimant was breaching a golden hello '£25k' which the company took the unusual step of demanding back. As the case progressed the defendants 'no win no fee' firm pulled out, realising claimant had been lying. <br />On day of tribunal claimant withdrew.<br /><br />This was as straightforward as they come. Plenty of evidence of wrongdoing, plenty of grounds for dismissal.<br />Procedurally, not too bad...few holes, but not unfairly dismissed.<br /><br />Cost to claimant = £0<br />Cost to company defending = £19,000<br />No costs.Bill Quango MPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14861116614665461655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3083855923964640893.post-84882449471822673192011-05-31T12:56:10.654+01:002011-05-31T12:56:10.654+01:00Correct.
This was neatly summed up by Tim Worstal...Correct.<br /><br />This was neatly summed up by Tim Worstall (referring to an immigration case as it happened): in Britain we have the rule of law, not the rule of the state.<br /><br />Amen to that.Old BEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06974090439936326476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3083855923964640893.post-39292342411452952382011-05-29T15:50:51.501+01:002011-05-29T15:50:51.501+01:00Julia - Yes, it's one of the two stock answers...Julia - Yes, it's one of the two stock answers:<br />(i) I know that's what the law I wrote says, but it's not what I wanted it to mean,and<br />(ii) What? You mean I have to abide by it as well as you little people?<br /><br />Measured - I'd rather have the clear conscience than the cash. Peter Connolly will still be dead, after all. But yes, there does seem to be a degree of disproportionality in the figure. It will be interesting to see what is actually awarded.<br /><br />Mr Q - thank you!patentlyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00602962323262055007noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3083855923964640893.post-49380967050175064602011-05-29T13:46:13.453+01:002011-05-29T13:46:13.453+01:00Correct again as usual Mr P.Correct again as usual Mr P.Bill Quango MPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14861116614665461655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3083855923964640893.post-49947984282547547892011-05-28T12:34:18.450+01:002011-05-28T12:34:18.450+01:00the utter brass neck of Balls to flagrantly break ...<i>the utter brass neck of Balls to flagrantly break the employment laws that his party imposed on the rest of us, and then waltz off leaving the bill on our laps.</i><br /><br />Indeed.<br /><br />Blimey, £1m for not having the opportunity to attend a five minute meeting which she wouldn't have wanted to attend anyway. I have gone wrong somewhere.measuredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11281134269555074558noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3083855923964640893.post-30065312089756750982011-05-28T05:52:48.965+01:002011-05-28T05:52:48.965+01:00"The Courts (once again) are taking the flack...<i>"The Courts (once again) are taking the flack from politicians for doing exactly what those same politicians ordered them to do."</i><br /><br />Once again, the politicians have realised that the rules apply to them, and <i>that's not what they intended when they drew them up, god damnit!</i>JuliaMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07844126589712842477noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3083855923964640893.post-67940023198039893342011-05-27T21:34:46.100+01:002011-05-27T21:34:46.100+01:00That would have been the sensible and honourable t...That would have been the sensible and honourable thing to do. <br /><br />Mind you, if she'd had the degree of awareness and ability necessary to have been capable of that, she might not have got into the situation she did.patentlyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00602962323262055007noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3083855923964640893.post-818703133254536482011-05-27T21:30:26.233+01:002011-05-27T21:30:26.233+01:00She still should have resignedShe still should have resignedSimon Cookehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12586896340482296341noreply@blogger.com